I’ve been a member for years, but I hardly visit the site any more, mostly because I live further away than I used to. I’m currently grandfathered in at $60/month, but that’s still $720/year for something I get little benefit from.
So I’m debating canceling my membership. But instead of doing that, would it be possible to create a limited membership option that would only allow access a couple times a month, e.g. only on Tuesdays? Limited members would have to follow all the same guidelines, but Skedda and their access keys would only work on their “designated” days.
Currently the shortest membership you can purchase is a one month membership. You are free to turn this on and off as needed, but there isn’t an option for anything shorter.
Creating shorter term memberships creates more administrative work on the back side, as multiple systems would have to be updated to allow this.
It’s an interesting idea and something other makerspaces do, but as James mentioned it’s a heavy administrative load for us to set up and between not having staff onsite around the clock and how hard it is for us to get members in the mode of not letting each other into the space, it’d be extremely difficult for us to enforce. The ability to turn membership on/off at will is the best we will have for the time being. It is good for us to hear about people’s interest in this though so thank you for posting. And thanks for being a long time member and supporter even though you don’t make it into the shop regularly these days.
In other places I have been where you need membership, if you let your membership lapse you need to go back through recertifications if you turn it back on.
ASMBLY is pretty chill relative to most places about membership stuff.
I have never seriously considered joining the space for similar reasons. Using a rented building for a hackerspace is a terrible waste. If the space were making payments toward owning property, membership could be made available to people who want to make significant long-term investments in the property. Without anything durable to show for the organization, it is in danger of folding as members age and popular culture changes. Hackerspaces could end of as just a passing fad, while owned property would allow them to become an institution that is an asset to the community. Of course, owning property would be huge undertaking, perhaps a project that would be as difficult as starting another space from scratch.
Almost every business in existence uses rented commercial property. This is really a non-issue. Ownership of a $1million+ asset really isn’t something you are able to do willy nilly. A quick look on loopnet shows it’ll probably be closer to $2 million to purchase a comparable space. ASMBLY does not have the credit to borrow $2 million. Any bank would look at this business model and organization structure and laugh at the idea. This also wouldn’t really free up any cash flow until the building is owned outright. Conventional commercial loans are on a 10 year payoff structure (often including a large balloon payment at the end), so even if ASMBLY could afford a payment that high they would only be able to magically allow community members in for free after 10 years of payments.
As for if the organization can fold, this is really just as possible if a space is owned. Is a “hackerspace” or makerspace the highest and best use of a property? Or would the temptation of simply renting the space out to a different business and securing a guaranteed income win out to the people who ultimately hold the keys to the kingdom. This organization isn’t exactly a democracy as it currently stands, no need to make incentives that don’t align with the members’ use.
Makerspaces as a concept are far from a passing fad. Dallas Makerspace has been around for more than a decade. Members do come and go of course as life changes but unless the concept of making things is a passing fad it is hard to see how access to $100k+ of tools for the price of $75 a month will be a bad deal because of a change in “pop culture”.
Obviously, at $75 a month a makerspace is a somewhat expensive investment unless you will make serious use of the space. For some, the math doesn’t work out and that makes complete sense.
Obviously purchasing retail property at such an expensive location would not be an option. I would suggest purchasing property where an appropriate building could be constructed. It might start with a concrete slab and walls constructed using shipping containers. There is a lot of land to the east of the current location where new construction should be feasible. I have been continually amazed at the talents and resources among the Asmbly membership. I wonder how many of them would consider investing perhaps $50 or 100k if they knew that their investment were secured with actual property that could be sold if the project folded. I would be much more inclined to spend tens of thousands for what would be effectively a lifetime membership than to spend close to $1k annually for a membership that I could only use occasionally. There are myriad possibilities and an endless variety of creative solutions that might be considered, but I think this forum is probably not the best place to address those issues.
Renting isn’t “throwing money away” by any means. We’re paying for a service, that is, a space to work out of that is maintained by someone else. Renting is by and large the more affordable choice. I’d argue that we’d be much more at risk of folding if we were tied to a particular property that we had to maintain and manage ourselves. When we rent, we’re much more agile and able to move to a larger/smaller space as our requirements change, like I’ve heard we are planning to do when our current lease ends.
Regardless, I personally don’t consider the $75 monthly payment to be prohibitively expensive by any means. Woodworking (and metal working, and lasers, etc) are often considered expensive hobbies and this is by far the most affordable way to access that hobby. There are a myriad of ways to make $75 a month by utilizing the shops resources. Selling one cutting board a month could pay for it. Not trying to undercut those that find the membership price prohibitively expensive, but perhaps the needs of those users and the service the shop provides just don’t align at that point.
I don’t see how asking members to invest 50-100k into a shop could somehow be construed as more affordable… if you have that kind of money laying around you might as well throw it in the stock market and you’re likely to make an average of 10% a year (based on historical averages) which would pay for your membership and then some.
As someone who is looking into building a 960 square foot steel building on my property, your cost estimates are laughably low.
This is the cheapest lot I am seeing for sale, all the way out in Manor. An 8000+ square foot building fully finished with the electrical, climate control, ventilation, plumbing, etc that we would need would run in the 7 figures easily.
Dallas Makerspace actually did offer this as a special promotion to fund their move into their current space. It cost $10k for a lifetime membership, and I know one person who did it. The problem is, what if you spend $10k and then go on to egregiously break rules? $10k is enough money that this would probably lead to a lawsuit if a “lifetime” member was ever banned for any reason, or even if the terms of that membership needed to change due to no fault of any party. If you signed up for a “lifetime” membership at the current location but the makerspace moved to a new location that was too far from you, downsized, sold off the equipment you were interested in using, etc, you’d be pretty pissed. Maybe these “lifetime” members may feel they should have higher authority over what is done with the space than “temporary” members.
One good way is to give back to the community and offer 1 class a month. This will completely cover your membership and depending on the class might even net you a bit of profit.
Back to the topic on hand, if I turn off my membership and then turn it back on (e.g. wait until the end of the year to do all my projects in one month), will my cost still be $60/month, or will I lose that discount?
I’m also curious to know where (or to whom) I can sell one cutting board per month.
We actually had a very successful makers market this last Christmas where most vendors sold lots of things. Theres also etsy, and other local markets. Of course, this is more work which might not align with your goals
I’m also curious to know where (or to whom) I can sell one cutting board per month.
There are many members who utilize the shops resources to operate their business. Like Hanna said, etsy, ebay, instagram, TikTok, local markets, friends and family, etc are good places to look. I’ve sold several shop-made things, like a table (to a family member), some leather wallets (to several people who saw my work on TikTok), and indeed some cutting boards (also TikTok). I’m not suggesting it’s feasible to all, it takes work and time, but it’s certainly possible!
Hanna’s suggestion of teaching some classes is a good one too, that paid for my membership and then some for almost all of last year.
Regardless, sorry to de-rail the thread a bit. Back on topic: I agree if you’re not coming to the shop very often, it’s likely not worth it to keep paying continuously. A limited membership could be a good thing to look into, but I agree it raises some administrative problems. I think only on Tuesdays or whatever day doesn’t make as much sense as say, a lower weekly hours limit on Skedda. Currently I think it’s 12 or 15 hours a week, maybe something like 2-4 hours a week could be offered for cheaper. Might be easier to implement administratively as I know individual’s Skedda accounts can have different hourly allotments. Though may raise problems with people just overstaying their Skedda times or not booking on Skedda.
Unless we implement machine access systems that track actual hours used, limiting time to something that short via Skedda doesn’t seem feasible at the moment. As it stands, we already have issues with people either not booking their time on Skedda, or significantly overstaying their scheduled time.
We aren’t worried about the occasional 30 minute overstay, but consistently under-booking by 1-2 hours is an issue. We also still have an issue with people letting others into the space. I know it’s very hard in the moment to say no to someone trying to be let in, but unless that policy is strictly enforced, there’s really no way for us to implement something like this. That’s one reason among many that we hope to be able to hire enough staff and/or full-time staff to be at the space most hours. Then there will always be someone around to check and fix account issues and let people in.
Just to throw in my two cents… I only occasionally need the space, so I activate it one month at a time when I need it as suggested by James. I’m kind of mixed on how I like doing it that way, but for the moment it’s my best option. This isn’t really a complaint, but it’s just a listing on how I’ve used the space.
I wanted to use the oscilloscope in the electronics lab for testing something, so I resubbed effectively for one day, paying $75 for that use of the lab, I didn’t visit any other time within 30 days. I expected that, and just paid the $75 just to use the o-scope that one time to know exactly what was wrong with the part I had. When the Lagunas were installed, I activated my membership just so I could take the “free” class. I did a few test cuts on the Lagunas a few days later, and didn’t do anything else with that month’s sub.
When the metal shop update came out, I decided to skip the free training, and just wait until I have a situation where I need it and get retrained on it all.
Just as a random idea, for the limited-plan: maybe track the number of days you badge in, and allow usage 3 times a month? If you go over, you pay extra? Or maybe $20 for 24h of access, automatically billed to my CC when I hit the badge reader? (then if the billing fails, start sending grumpy emails to me) Or billed at the end of the month? I’m sure someone will find problems with this idea, but maybe it’ll lead to a better idea.
Edit: Doing the math, $25 or $30 would probably be a more reasonable number
Something to keep and mind, and a personal feeling of mine.
Asmbly is much more than a rentable space with fancy tools. Asmbly is a community of like minded people, that have a facility to help them create anything they desire. Beyond the physical walls and equipment, the knowledge possesed and shared by the members is truely invaluable. I’ve never experiences a community that is as open, inviting and friendly as Asmbly.
Members love discussing their projects and passions, and that helps cultivate more ideas and collaborations between memebers. Some of us do it as a hobby, some as a job, some as a learning experience and for other reasons as well. This forum alone has helped countless members with problems extending beyond the walls of Asmbly.
I understand the price for memebership means different things for people. Some members rairly step foot in Asmbly, but continue their membership to support Asmbly. Some members use every bit of their membership and some pay as they use. Allowing members to control their membership on an ongoing basis has been a successful model. As with any organization, one size doesn’t fit all. By in large, the current model seems pretty effective.
This is predicated on real estate always increasing in value. If that value drops, you very much want to be renting instead. Do remember that Austin used to have regular boom/bust cycles in real estate in spite of the fact that its been a while.
Commercial real estate in Austin is currently doing a “Wile E. Coyote” and avoiding gravity by not looking down. There’s real estate sitting over near the Triangle that has been empty since 2017. You simply cannot make up all that lost rent.
What’s happening is that all the speculative finance agreements allow you to consider a “temporarily unoccupied” space to tack rent onto the end of the agreement. However, if you rent that space out for less money, your “basis” changes and you have to cough up cash to the bank holding the financing.
A structural change is that a lot of tech stuff now has some significant component of work from home. That’s going to release more expensive commercial real estate which then triggers rent drops downstream.
So, everybody is continually kicking the can down the road and hoping they can eject to some other sucker before the music stops. Unfortunately, the interest rate hikes are bringing that to a screeching halt.
So I’m still looking for an answer to this question. Do I just turn payments on/off, temporarily suspending my membership, or do I need to fully leave/rejoin the space?
Sorry your question got lost in the weeds @timur. $60 legacy rate is not continued over when turning auto-renewal off. To pause your membership, you simply turn auto-renewal off in your Neon account. If you turn it back on within a year, all your certifications carry over (assuming new equipment/courses haven’t changed requirements like in the case of the new CNCs).