Since taking Ethan’s serving tray class, I’ve been working on making my own tray without the pre-made base parts or instructor guidance.
It’s been quite a learning process, and I was so close to finishing one today. The dry fit went really well, so I decided to glue it all together. And it failed completely.
The tray measures 13"x19" with 1/4" rabbets to butt the sides and a 1/4" groove to hold the base. The base was initially too thick, so I ran it through the wide belt sander, checking the fit after each pass, until it was snug with a slight resistance.
Then came the glue-up. Things went so wrong so fast I didn’t even have time to feel disappointed. As soon as I applied the glue, the parts wouldn’t seat properly. I tried tapping them together with a scrap piece of wood, but they wouldn’t budge. Meanwhile, the Titebond III set so quickly that within minutes I couldn’t adjust the pieces anymore. The whole process from dry fit to failure took maybe 5 minutes.
I don’t know what went wrong. Was the base was too tight, and the glue caused it and the and grooves to swell enough to block the fit? And what caused the glue to set so fast? I thought not using Speed Set would give me plenty of working time. What else could be the cause?
They may have been “too” snug. If the wood takes on more moisture from humidity, it will swell, making your snug joins not fit together anymore. Additionally, adding glue will also make the wood swell. It happens fast, spray some wood with water, and you’ll feel the texture increase. Thats’s the fibers swelling.
That’s the first issue that comes to mind.
Titebond 3 sets up real fast. Faster in heat. Even Titebond 2 will set up in 10-15min. There’s other glues that will give you more open time, (Titebond has one, hide glue, or epoxy).
I generally glue and fit the parts as I move through a glue-up, to cut back on swelling and maximize open time. So glue and fit one side, then move onto the the next side. Then end with clamps after everything is fitted. I’m not sure if this is what you already did. But I have seen people really struggle when they attempt to add glue to all the fitted surfaces, and then proceed to fit all their parts together afterwards.
How odd. I guess the slot specification was still too tight. We can talk whenever we run into each other next and see how to salvage this.
I don’t have much experience with Titebond 3. I use Titebond 2, which I guess sets more slowly than the others; 10 minutes is usually plenty of time to get everything together and clamped up.
I made my own Sketchup design that I’ve been building from, so no fault of yours. I’ll have a closer look at your design and see if I need to add clearance to mine.
If you applied glue to the end grain or the slot that the end grain fits into that would be a problem. I believe Ethan mentioned that during the class.
Im not sure where you’re getting the open times of the Titebond glues. Titebond 3 has twice the open time of Titebond 2, which puts it around ten mins. (give or take a few). What kind of lumber or material were you using? The glue should not swell your material were if persuation is used (mallet/hammer) cannot be overcome. Also, if the glue has just set, if you brace one side and strike it hard enough it will come appart. A box, frame, or tray if you drop it hard square to the floor usually the floor wins and most times the pieces come apart without damage.
I am making the test builds with cheap pine. Should I try something else?
It was a real comedy, me wiggling and pounding the parts to fit, glue squeezing out of all the joints as I wrestled them. At the end, the pieces were stuck all crooked, half in their joints and at angles, glue everywhere. It might have come apart again, but it didn’t seem salvageable.
Luke, I’m willing to meet up with you and take a look at the project and go over glue up strategies. We can review your methodology and cover what you did well, areas to improve and plans for going forward. Let me know if you’re interested.
You did not describe the glue up process. single side glue or both surfaces? Try single side and minimum amount. Pine does soak up moisture and swells as a result. Only apply glue to the surfaces youre working on.
I took the dry fit and popped all the pieces apart like an exploded diagram, then ran a bead down the center of each rabbet and inside each groove. There was a bit more squeeze-out than desirable, which made an increasing mess as I tried to adjust all the pieces at the same time.
I had a brand-new bottle purchased that morning because the day before when I was glueing the base, I discovered my previous bottle had gotten chunky.
It did seem to start setting a lot faster than the advertised 10 minutes, though. Or maybe the grain swelled even more as I was working?
I’m going to make some test glue-ups this week and see if I can use what y’all have said to figure out what happened.
PS Titebond publishes their dry times for each type of glue. Hide and Extend II have the longest times of the ones I checked (general woodworking, I did not check laminates):
If you get hide glue, it has a low shelf life and it does go bad. If you’re mixing it and have your own pot, disregard the above. PVA glues (yellow glue) for the most part are more stable and can stay good well beyond their expiration date on the bottles. As a matter of fact, Titebond says if the glue pours out of the bottle, it will do its job. Obviously it will not have the same open/workable time. So in case you don’t know, if youre looking at the glue as you are putting parts together and it already has a “skin” forming, you have to scrape that off and reapply a fressh layer because it will not be a good strong joint. Another sign would be a dark edge on Titebond 3 or a dark gold/amber edge on Titebond 1 & 2. So again only apply glue to the parts you’re putting together instead if applying glue to all the parts and then try to put them together. Uless is a few pieces you will not beat the setting process of the glue. Some where there is a video of the Titebond presentation last year, if you can dig it up, is worth it. Is a bit long but it has all your answers of stuff that may arise during gluing. I have glued a lot of stuff over 35 years and can tell you the Titebond Rep. Did not miss much in his presentation. Good luck!